Have you ever happened across a Christian rock station and, out of curiosity, listened to a few songs? Did you find yourself wondering why the singers sounded so excited about a God they couldn't even see? In fact, most of them sing with as much fervor about God as secular artists sing about love or sex. Weird! And some of them are actually pretty good. I mean, don't these people know that choosing to sing about strictly Christian themes severely limits their fame/fortune potential? Of course, Christians could all be suffering from some kind of personality disorder. But then, if that were true, it's doubtful that the Christian system of belief would have lasted as long as it has--being run by a bunch of intellectually stunted, emotionally needy people.Consider this alternative: Maybe, just maybe, there's something to sing about.
14 comments:
Thanks for stopping by my blog. Would you care to reciprocate links? Just a thought.
Interesting thought you have there. To those who say that the quality of Christian music is below that of secular, I say poo. There is some good secular music out there right now, but the vast majority of it lacks the defining style it had back in the mid to late 90's. There is an occasional stand out, but it is very occasional. It is as if the exact inverse has happened on the Christian music scene. I have enjoyed most of what I hear when I flip over to the Christian radio stations in my area. I can't say the same for secular. I listen to mostly classical music anymore because I enjoy the stirring and artistic expression of the style. I also find it soothing in a way that I find little else soothing.
BTW, I received your comment on my blog in my email, but it never turned up under any of the postings on the current page. So, in response to that comment, I understand what you mean about some kids just having to learn the hard way about tantrum throwing, but there are so many kids throwing tantrums they shouldn't anymore that it is hard to give grace to those who are the exception to the rule. You also have control over where your child is throwing the tantrum. You can move them outside and to the car. I have a tremendous amount of respect for any parent I see taking their child outside when they start to pitch a fit. It is horrible the amount of constant screaming and crying that you have to listen to anymore in the grocery store. I remember looking forward to the outing of the grocery store when I was a kid. Now, I loathe having to go.
I must agree that there is something there that makes people so passionate about God and their religion. I am Anglican: non practicing (if practicing means that I go to church every Sunday or more) but I do keep the faith and with many of the teachings of the Bible.
Religion can always evoke some of the strongest emotions: God can pick you up when times are rough and he watches over you and supports you when you need it the most. Who doesn't want someone like that in their life?
These musicians may be aware that they are limiting their success because of their faith... on the other hand, the celebration of faith is very important and a personal matter... something that deserves praise through music. I also know at least a couple of musical groups that have become successful with songs of Christian faith.
While I have a strong belief in God, I am somewhat concerned with the dangers of religious fervour and zeal. What you propose seems to be a good thing from all sides: membership, brotherhood, faith... for a better future for your children and my future children...
But religion can turn political very quickly... and that is why I might stress: to each their own... towards building a better tomorrow together with people of different faiths and people of no faith.
Mr. Kendelton,
Thank you so much for dropping by and leaving your very thoughtful comment. I understand your hesitance to get involved in a religion. In fact, even Jesus felt the way you do about religion. Many people get the wrong idea about Him. Many people think that He was all about religion. But that's not why He came at all. Jesus came so that we might have life and have it to the full (John 10:10). He didn't come to start a new religion or to support the Republican Party. He goes on to tell us what that life is, what He is talking about and how we can have it. (John 14:6 & John 3:16).
I stongly believe in the benefits of attending and getting involved in a good church where the people truly know what it means to have a living, active and dynamic relationship with God. But I have to admit that I get nervous about encouraging others to attend church in their area because, though I've found a good one, I know that there are a vast number of bad eggs out there.
The problem, though, lies with people. We like to put everything into neat little packages. But God won't be put into a package, will He? That's why when we begin relying on procedures instead of on the Person, we wake up one day to realize that we no longer know Who God is and we can no longer hear His voice. We often don't even know what went wrong.
Let me encourage you, though. A true and living, open communication with God is very possible. God knows you intimately and knows exactly what it's going to take to get you to understand His voice. All you have to do is start listening. (Matthew 7:7-8) Trust Him to show you where to go to find people who truly love Him and follow Him with all their hearts.
And remember, you don't have to clean yourself up first before God will pay attention to you. Just start paying attention to Him and let Him do the rest. God loves you, yes, but He also LIKES you.
God bless you, Mr. Kendelton,
Susan
Interesting comments amd I have one or two: The funny thing about religion...it sucks. It puts people into categories and labels them good, bad or whatever. Religion is in it for itself and who is important and who is not important. God hates religion. Religion is dangerous and it hurts people.
There are people who love God but because of bad religious experiences stay away from anything in that form, namely church buildings. Despite how great or God focusd some churches are, they're not wanting to get "burned" again, and I don't blame them.
But here is one thought I had about that; someone who is a golfer who loves to golf and lives for golf isn't going to quit golf just because one golf club house treats him like dirt! He's going to go find another place; driving range that he is happy with and treats him with respect. Weird analogy, I know, but it just goes to show that when you love something, you have to stick with it and try different avenues despite the few jerks you meet in your path. I've found jerks in churchs too, but I do know that God is loving and when I'm following after Him, I'm in my comfort zone. And guess what, He even loves those jerks! :)
I wouldn't be hesitant to encourage others to attend church, just because I know there are so many bad ones out there. I could tell you horror stories about the heresy factories my wife and I have been through. None of it has been fun, and after 6.5 years of marriage, we still have never found a body of believers to belong to that felt like a true home and harbor for our souls. But Hebrews 11:25 stands firm on this. It may not always be pretty or fun, but we must seek. And it is in the context of a loving and supportive body that we truly experience what our faith is all about. If people choose to blame God for what people do, then that is their responsibility, but we should be encouraging seekers to go to places where they might find.
I hope that this doesn't sound too harsh. I have been told that I have a very blunt and rough style. I apologize if it comes across that way. It is my intent that it sound like gentle reasoning, not rebuke.
Blessings.
Hi back to you, I guess that coming across that silly poster on my Blog might not have been the best thing for you to see but yes, I have hit a rough patch...
I will drop by to your blog every so often to keep in touch and maybe get some more positive feelings.
Thanks for the note back though.
I agree Jared King...I hope I didn't sound like I was discouraging people to attend. By no means. I have found, after several tries including a nasty church split, a place where my husband and children love. We are a family there...hello! We're a family of God anyway. I guess I understand why people don't even though I think they should keep trying. It usually makes them happier and feel like it was worth it in the end once they've found that "home style" church.
I checked out your blog by the way...very cool. Laurel
Alfred,
I agree that a Muslim might also have such a defense of their spiritual beliefs. Of course, I don't believe that Christians are intellectually stunted nor emotionally needy, but neither do I believe that of any other group of people of faith, regardless of what they might believe. I suppose my point was to address a specific stereotype held by, possibly, a small portion of our population, that faith of any sort is for only intellectually or emotionally insecure individuals. The Islamic faith and many others have lasted so long because there are very intelligent, very reasonable people involved.
However, I have noticed a distinct difference in the music. I believe that music is a very good window into the soul of the person singing it--regardless of the subject matter and style. It is a personal thing--something that expresses our deepest longings, desires and, often, our true beliefs. I'm not saying there isn't any fake music out there, but don't you find it difficult to sing about something you don't truly believe or support?
When I listen to Christians singing about Christ, I can't help but notice the sincerity and true joy that comes across with each word, each harmony. Secular artists sing with equal enthusiasm about sex, but somehow, it doesn't touch me like Christian rock does. Maybe there's as much validity in Christ's message as there is in the idea that sex is great. Just a thought.
Thanks again, Alfred, for your thoughtful, insightful comments. I certainly appreciate your input.
Susan
Albert,
I appreciate your comments. I think you are right that reasons for faith come from a variety of different areas.
I am sorry you feel that your pastor let you down. Sometimes, though, the reason we don't receive adequate answers is because we are asking the wrong questions. Now, I don't know what questions you asked your pastor that he couldn't answer, but consider this example of a poor question: If someone asked me "Why did you cheat on your husband?" There is no direct answer for that because I haven't cheated on my husband. It assumes information not yet validated. Sometimes we ask questions about God that assume information not yet validated. We think we know more than we do. We want God to jump through our hoops, so to speak, and fit into our ideas of what "godhood" is. Well, if God is real, then we don't define Who He is, He does. The best questions come from a spirit of truly desiring to learn. Again, I don't know what questions you asked. I don't know in what state of mind you were in or what spirit you asked what you did. Perhaps, though, you might re-evaluate the questions for yourself. If you still have questions that you feel deserve an answer, please pass them along to me. I don't claim to be all-wise, but maybe together we can think through them.
Susan
Albert,
Wow! That is a very interesting dilema you have there! A few answers come immediately to mind, but please let me think about it, pray about it and do some research before I just rattle off and prove to you how stupid I can be. I would like to give this some real attention.
Susan
Albert,
I am still working on an adequate answer for you to your first question, but let me ask you this: Do you believe in God? If so, Who is He and how do you know?
Susan
Albert,
(By the way, forgive me for calling you Alfred earlier. I don't know what I was thinking.)
Let me first say, while I greatly admire C.S.Lewis on many levels, I disagree with him on this point. It might also be helpful to point out that Mr. Lewis went through various stages of faith in his life. I don't know enough about him, though, to say whether or not he held this sentiment until his death or if he discovered the answer(s). Regardless, I respect him & his writings greatly, though (to tout an old cliche) they're not exactly gospel.
That being said, let's look at your question, based on Matthew 24:34 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" (found also in Luke 21:32 & Mark 13:30). Your question was, basically, Jesus said He was coming back immediately. He hasn't, so who was to blame? Him or the writers of the Scriptures?
First of all, let me point out that this is a multi-layered question. I have listed them below and tried to answer each of them.
1. Translation. What was the meaning in the original Greek for the word "generation" and are our translations doing justice to it?
The word translated as "generation" is from the Greek word(s) "yevea genea". My Greek lexicon translates it as: "a generation" "an age (the period of persons:-age, generation, nation, time." There are a couple of ways we could look at this. One might be that Jesus was meaning "an age"; therefore, it could mean a much longer time than just a few decades. However, I think the true meaning (from what I've read about the passage and the word itself) is actually "generation" as we understand the word today--tied to the life expectancy of an individual. Now, why would He say such a thing? Stay with me; that answer is coming under question 5.
2. If the writers of the gospels misunderstood Jesus' words, is it some kind of cosmic failure? If so, is it theirs or Jesus'?
I don't think Jesus' disciples misunderstood Jesus' words--at least the literal meaning of them. Neither do I think that Jesus made a mistake in saying what He did. I think the disciples understood precisely what Jesus wanted them to understand at that time. However, I think Jesus meant far more than they were yet ready to understand. (I can expound on this later, if you like.)
3. If the writers of the Scriptures were capable of misunderstandings, how can we trust what they say?
One of my favorite people in the Bible is Peter. Maybe it's because I've heard him bad-mouthed so much in Bible studies because of his brazeness and infallible stupidity and I just like supporting the underdog, but, more likely, it's because I'm so much like him! I couldn't even begin to list the maze of troubles he got himself into because of his big, fat mouth! (Yes, he is SO much like me! I could tell you such stories! I won't, though, or you'd stop reading my blog.) And yet, of all the disciples, who was the one who walked on water with Jesus? Who was the one, who through one single sermon, led over three-thousand to the Lord and helped usher in the Holy Spirit?
I think, perhaps, the greatest miracle of the Bible is not the floating axhead or the talking donkey, but the fact that God so consistently used the most fallible, lowly and despised people of the world through which to display His glory!
I Corinthians 1:26-31 states, "Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: 'Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.'"
So, if the writers of the Scriptures were fallible, then how can we trust what they wrote? Because God was guiding them to write exactly what He wanted them to, in exactly the right words and for exactly the right hearers. We don't need to trust in Peter or in Paul or in Moses or in any of the other 44 or so writers of the Bible. Our trust should reside in God alone. God's whole point is that, though people are fallible, God is not, and He can use us to get across precisely the right thing. Who did God choose to ask Pharaoh to let the Israelites go? Moses! --A guy with a terrible stutter! I think this truth is one of the most beautiful of the entire Bible! It means that there is hope for me to have a part with Him!
For more on this, check out my next post. I was going to wait until next week, but I think you need to hear it (I mean, read it) now.
4. How did "prophets" receive their instructions from God & how much did they need to understand of it for it to be dependable to us?
I recently did a very extensive study on the prophet Habakkuk, and when I say "extensive", I mean I read for five hours a day for three months straight. What I can tell you about how prophets received their messages from God is this: there are as many different ways for people to hear God as there are stars in the sky. Not only that, but the prophets often (if not usually) didn't understand the full implications of what they were writing. They simply heard what God was telling them and they wrote it down. Sometimes it was a dream; sometimes it was a vision; sometimes it was an experience that answered a question they had asked; sometimes it was something more visible, like a talking donkey or a burning bush, but God, in His infinite creativity, found a way--the perfect way--to reach that specific person in a manner in which they could understand. Once they knew the message, they then wrote it down. Sometimes it was in poetic verse (Isaiah), other times in a narrative style (Jeremiah) and other times in a wave of weird images (John). Did they have to understand it? No. In fact, sometimes it's obvious that they didn't (like in the many references to Jesus in Isaiah--remind me to expound on that sometime! It's truly amazing!) The fact remains that if the God of the universe wanted a message given to His people, He is perfectly capable of delivering it in exactly the way He wants, even while using fallible people like us.
5. Was it within Jesus' character to intentionally confuse people through His teachings? If so, is this consistent with how the Bible describes God? What would that mean to me and my relationship with Him?
Yes, to the first question here. I certainly think it was within His character to say things in a purposefully confusing way. Think about all the parables He told.
Once, when speaking to His disciples alone, He said, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" (Mark 4:11-12 & Isaiah 6:9,,10)
Sounds a little scandalous, doesn't it? I mean, why would Jesus do such a thing when He, supposedly, wants "all men to be saved" (1 Timothy 2:4)?
I think this one requires a two-fold answer. 1, because Jesus desires our love and our faith. If Jesus were to come down bodily before every single person in a blaze of glory and "prove" himself to each of us, where would our love be? Where would our faith be? Neither would be relevant. There would no longer be the possibility of a loving, harmonious, growing relationship between God and man; it would be a master and his slave. God loves us too much to settle for that kind of interaction. He wants more. 2, because God's purposes extend beyond me or you and beyond this day and time (or them and that day and time). His purposes extend into infinity. He is so much bigger than us that this is hard to grasp, but God has many millenia worth of people and events within His plans--hardly any of it of which we are aware. In Exodus 10:20, when Moses was before Pharaoh, it reads, "But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go." Why? Because no matter how Pharaoh resisted God, God's purposes were going to prevail in exactly the right manner and at exactly the right time. For the record, I believe Pharaoh had his chance to turn and repent (the hardening came later), but he passed it up.
I think, with that, I have shown that Jesus' methods in the NT were consistent with God's methods in the OT.
One more example, though, which I think more closely resembles the one about "this generation" can be found in John 2:19-22. By the way, Jesus was also called a liar for this one. Jesus was standing in the Temple in Jerusalem. "Jesus answered them, 'Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.'The Jews replied, 'It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?' But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken." This, I believe is a direct parallel to the verse in question in style. I believe that the "generation" Jesus was talking of was not the "generation" of the people in that assembly, but of the "generation" of all Christians. Throughout the Bible, God has promised us (His children) that no matter what calamity may come, a remnant of believers will always be preserved. (Ezra 9:8, Romans 11:5) As with the "temple" in John, the word "generation" has much deeper meaning. And, don't forget that Jesus had a specific purpose in mind for the whole "temple" thing, and it came to pass: "Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken."
So, what does this mean for us and our relationship with God? That He has everything under control, for one. That we can trust Him, that even though we don't understand everything at first, He is capable of opening our eyes to new truth, maturing us gradually as would a loving Father and that He hears our requests. It means our faith will never return void. (Matthew 7:7)
Remember, Albert, while intellectual digging such as this can be very helpful, study alone cannot give you what you desire most--an open, loving, whole relationship with God. Only Love can do that--and His name is Jesus.
Feel free to reply. If I don't get back to you right away, it's because I'm leaving for the weekend.
God bless you, Albert,
Susan
Albert,
There you are! I thought maybe you'd given up on me. I mean, it's okay if you do; I just wondered.
I know that it is usually not a good idea to rely strictly on the Bible to answer people's questions. However, since your question was about a specific passage of Scripture and was concerning Jesus' character and that of the Bible, I felt the best place to start was with the Bible itself to show that, biblically at least, Jesus' character was consistent with that statement. Also, all I know of your background was that you are an ex-Christian. I don't know what brought you to that place, but I thought that perhaps it was because the Bible and Jesus were misrepresented to you in some way. I wanted to show that where some people see contradictions, others take a more holistic approach.
I have looked into the link you sent me. Actually, I've looked into all of them and even added them to my favorites list so that I could go back from time to time to read more. I have read a good portion of the agnostic Baptist ministers' statements. Naturally, I disagree with him on many points. I haven't read all of it yet, though. I will as I can find the time.
Thanks again,
Susan
I notice many of the links from Albert seem to be apologetics for unbelief. I suggest adding the following links. They are the same website, but the second one goes directly to an archive of audio addresses that logically answer many of the questions that have been raised. If it is fair to research unbelievers or those who have left faith, then it should be just as fair to listen to a reasonable, logical defense from a believer.
http://www.rzim.org/
http://www.rzim.org/radio/archives.php?p=LMPT
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